Previous day's transcript | This day's raw log | Less Kruft
| Time | Person | Said |
|---|
| 01:01 | brynk > | (i=506466ce@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-90f6ccd8a1d1020c) joined #chandler. |
| 01:05 | brynk > | (i=506466ce@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-90f6ccd8a1d1020c) left irc: Client Quit |
| 02:07 | (Nick change: jaredrhine_afk -> jaredrhine) |
| 02:07 | (Nick change: jaredrhine -> jaredrhine_afk) |
| 02:07 | (Nick change: jaredrhine_afk -> jaredrhine) |
| 03:47 | jes1 > | (n=jess@59.160.172.220) joined #chandler. |
| 03:48 | jes1 > | (n=jess@59.160.172.220) left #chandler. |
| 04:18 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote closed the connection |
| 04:18 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #chandler. |
| 04:19 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote closed the connection |
| 04:21 | urlauber > | (n=urlauber@urlaubix.fh-reutlingen.de) joined #chandler. |
| 04:31 | mib_10y7g6 > | (i=7d11b632@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1ed9c81c51f6d66b) joined #chandler. |
| 04:32 | mib_10y7g6 > | :( |
| 04:32 | urlauber > | hi there! I have a problem with subscribing to someone elses calender via thunderbird/lightning, I just can't see any dates from that someone. It works the other way round, he can see my dates. I'm using lightning 0.8 on ubuntu together with the cosmo server. My colleague is using lightning 08, too, but on WinXP... |
| 04:32 | mib_10y7g6 > | (i=7d11b632@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1ed9c81c51f6d66b) left irc: Client Quit |
| 04:57 | urlauber > | (n=urlauber@urlaubix.fh-reutlingen.de) left irc: Remote closed the connection |
| 05:01 | urlauber > | (n=urlauber@urlaubix.fh-reutlingen.de) joined #chandler. |
| 05:04 | gbaillie > | (n=gbaillie@adsl-71-146-68-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 05:08 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #chandler. |
| 05:08 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote closed the connection |
| 05:08 | macmaN6789 > | (n=lkraav@56.184.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #chandler. |
| 07:11 | mib_4ai69b > | (i=0caf7714@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-233a19ccd57123df) joined #chandler. |
| 07:20 | mib_4ai69b > | (i=0caf7714@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-233a19ccd57123df) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" |
| 07:22 | urlauber > | (n=urlauber@urlaubix.fh-reutlingen.de) left irc: "Ex-Chat" |
| 07:33 | gbaillie > | bear, yt? |
| 08:01 | nathany > | (n=nathan@adsl-71-134-241-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) joined #chandler. |
| 09:12 | gbaillie > | (n=gbaillie@adsl-71-146-68-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: |
| 09:13 | gbaillie > | (n=grant@adsl-71-146-68-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 09:17 | pje > | (n=pje@adsl-9-215-89.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #chandler. |
| 09:26 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 09:32 | heikkit > | (n=chatzill@12.130.157.75) joined #chandler. |
| 09:41 | hamstar > | (n=hamstar@nmd.sbx06937.sanfrca.wayport.net) joined #chandler. |
| 09:57 | jaredrhine > | gbaillie: looks like you are in the middle of some checking. I wanted to ask about "doc" commit r1421, where you change svn:eol-style to CR (for GoLive). |
| 09:57 | jaredrhine > | Since then, the commits script hasn't been useful, because every change to index.html shows a replacement of the whole file. Who's using GoLive? |
| 09:58 | jaredrhine > | no hurry on an answer... |
| 10:38 | moondawg > | (n=chatzill@c-67-161-5-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #chandler. |
| 10:59 | rletness > | (n=chatzill@cerberus.motive.com) joined #chandler. |
| 10:59 | gbaillie > | hi, jaredrhine ... sorry, i'm using a different irc client and didn't see your ping |
| 10:59 | gbaillie > | mimi is a golive user |
| 11:00 | jaredrhine > | 11am yo |
| 11:00 | gbaillie > | i tried that change to make the diffs work, but that didn't seem to do it |
| 11:00 | gbaillie > | e-leven aye em |
| 11:00 | jaredrhine > | ok, and what happens without that set? |
| 11:00 | jaredrhine > | ah, nothing changes? |
| 11:00 | gbaillie > | that's my recollection |
| 11:00 | gbaillie > | i had hoped it would help :( |
| 11:00 | jaredrhine > | hmmm |
| 11:01 | gbaillie > | if svn had any brains it would :o |
| 11:01 | jaredrhine > | ok. |
| 11:01 | jaredrhine > | can't we blame golive instead here? |
| 11:01 | jaredrhine > | :) |
| 11:02 | moondawg > | hey 11:00am. Sorry I think my clock is slow |
| 11:02 | moondawg > | hamstar |
| 11:02 | gbaillie > | heh |
| 11:02 | hamstar > | hi |
| 11:02 | moondawg > | JeffreyH |
| 11:02 | JeffreyH > | bonjour |
| 11:03 | moondawg > | Ok, so lets gets started |
| 11:03 | moondawg > | Met with Mimi yesterday afternoon. We talked about next steps for the user advisory group and projects we could have them work on. |
| 11:04 | moondawg > | We also brainstormed all the initial stuff we need to take care of with the new board - legal and other stuff. We also talked about a first set of projects they could tackle. Probably worth writing this up. |
| 11:04 | moondawg > | hamstar...were you going to add that list to an item in Chandler? |
| 11:04 | hamstar > | (you can see lists in OSAF collection) |
| 11:04 | moondawg > | ah..thanks |
| 11:05 | moondawg > | I pinged Alex and I am still waiting to hear back from Eugene. |
| 11:05 | moondawg > | Working on the metrics blog post today. Talking to Davor tomorrow. |
| 11:06 | moondawg > | I saw philippe yesterday and talked to him about getting involved with teh project. He is pretty busy but is going to contact a few people. |
| 11:06 | moondawg > | I am still hoping I can re-engage him in the project. |
| 11:06 | moondawg > | That's it for me. Just the other usual admin stuff |
| 11:06 | moondawg > | Jaredrhine |
| 11:06 | jaredrhine > | followed up to bug 12352 |
| 11:06 | soup > | OSAF bug #12352: osaf-server-bundle-1.0.0.tar.gz does not untar Product: OSAF, Component: www.osafoundation.org, Severity: blocker, Assigned to: jared@wordzoo.com, Status: NEW, Url: http://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12352 |
| 11:07 | jaredrhine > | move internal wiki to public location and announced |
| 11:07 | DGMurdockIII > | (n=dgmurdoc@208-70-41-194.bb.hrtc.net) joined #chandler. |
| 11:07 | jaredrhine > | patched svn for cosmo 1.1 release, built lab instance and announced |
| 11:07 | jaredrhine > | targetting 1pm test session on next.osaf.us |
| 11:08 | jaredrhine > | updating osaf web page with new phone number and pushed live |
| 11:08 | jaredrhine > | cancelled old osaf phone number |
| 11:08 | jaredrhine > | poked alex for conversation |
| 11:08 | jaredrhine > | talked to sheila about returning full-time; am planning full-time return |
| 11:08 | jaredrhine > | prepped a hardware spreadsheet combining tbox room, colo, and people's assigned hardware. |
| 11:09 | jaredrhine > | upcoming is emails for some old hardware (getting adam's machine for a build laptop) |
| 11:09 | jaredrhine > | building a new svn home on one of our vm boxes, start developing procedure for moving svn repos |
| 11:10 | jaredrhine > | </> |
| 11:10 | moondawg > | thanks jared |
| 11:10 | gbaillie > | svnadmin dump | ssh svnadmin load ;) ? |
| 11:10 | moondawg > | hamstar |
| 11:10 | hamstar > | - Going to post next steps tomorrow (since 1.01 announcement went out today) |
| 11:10 | hamstar > | - Jeffrey if you write to users list re: QE iphone, I can link to it in the next steps post |
| 11:10 | hamstar > | - Reading book Eugene gave me on how to make ideas stick ;) |
| 11:10 | hamstar > | - Need to follow up on some intros he did with packard peeps |
| 11:10 | hamstar > | that's it |
| 11:10 | moondawg > | gbaillie |
| 11:11 | gbaillie > | it's not called Made to Stick, is it hamstar? |
| 11:11 | hamstar > | yes |
| 11:11 | gbaillie > | huh, anyway, my status ... |
| 11:11 | jaredrhine > | (gbaille, yup, with a specific order of what repos, and testing of post-commit hooks, etc, and moving of user accounts and keys) |
| 11:12 | gbaillie > | - got reply from pje that cleared some things up for me ... working on followup and next round of questions (re: item/dashboardentry) |
| 11:12 | gbaillie > | - looked at bug 12335, which is actually quite serious |
| 11:12 | soup > | Chandler bug #12335: Total data loss on chandler startup - restore not possible Product: Chandler, Component: Application, Severity: critical, Assigned to: grant@osafoundation.org, Status: NEW, Url: http://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12335 |
| 11:13 | hamstar > | 1.02 candidate? |
| 11:13 | gbaillie > | - will send email to bear re: lunch tomorrow (looks as if hamstar/moondawg have a conflict) |
| 11:13 | gbaillie > | yeah |
| 11:13 | gbaillie > | - released 1.0.1 |
| 11:13 | hamstar > | yay |
| 11:13 | moondawg > | gbaillie...we are supposed to talk to davor and we didn't want to reschedule a second time |
| 11:14 | gbaillie > | as an aside, not sure of the magic juju to become chanop to change the "chandler 1.0" in this channel's title |
| 11:14 | hamstar leaving for class, will catch up with notes on irc log - might be a little late for test session |
| 11:14 | hamstar > | (n=hamstar@nmd.sbx06937.sanfrca.wayport.net) left irc: |
| 11:14 | gbaillie > | yeah, right, moondawg. as i understand it, you might show up later |
| 11:14 | gbaillie > | or be able to, if mtng isn't too long |
| 11:14 | gbaillie > | </> |
| 11:14 | moondawg > | sure...let me know where you are going. hamstar and I can always meet you after our call |
| 11:16 | moondawg > | JeffreyH |
| 11:16 | JeffreyH > | iTMS released Chandler QE app |
| 11:16 | JeffreyH > | showed it off to the ex-OSAF-iPhone-wielding-poker-gathering last night |
| 11:17 | JeffreyH > | I've got UI for notifications up |
| 11:17 | JeffreyH > | (http://people.osafoundation.org/~jeffrey/ff_dialog.png) |
| 11:17 | JeffreyH > | tweaking UI a bit with hamstar this morning |
| 11:17 | JeffreyH > | wiring things up today |
| 11:17 | DGMurdockIII > | (n=dgmurdoc@208-70-41-194.bb.hrtc.net) left irc: "get satisfied! • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::" |
| 11:18 | JeffreyH > | get satisfied. I kind of wonder if that's a German phrase that got lost in translation |
| 11:18 | gbaillie > | hehe |
| 11:19 | moondawg > | ha |
| 11:19 | JeffreyH > | I think that's about it for me |
| 11:19 | moondawg > | pje..you there? |
| 11:19 | pje > | yep. |
| 11:19 | pje > | been here the whole time... |
| 11:19 | pje > | my turn, then? :) |
| 11:19 | moondawg > | yup |
| 11:19 | pje > | was starting to wonder. :) |
| 11:20 | gbaillie > | heh |
| 11:20 | pje > | ok, so, read grant's email and replied to it... starting work again on the setuptools 0.6c9 release |
| 11:20 | JeffreyH remebers: oh, spent a long time helping a guy get Lightning and iCal working with Cosmo in IRC yesterday... |
| 11:21 | JeffreyH > | </> |
| 11:21 | pje > | </> |
| 11:22 | moondawg > | ok..I guess that's it for today |
| 11:22 | moondawg > | thanks everybody |
| 11:26 | JeffreyH > | woot |
| 11:27 | JeffreyH > | (n=JeffreyH@h-67-103-33-123.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net) left irc: |
| 11:34 | heikkit is tired of patching setuptools for svn 1.5 so looking forward to new release |
| 11:36 | gbaillie > | heikkit, patch, or just install dev06? |
| 11:36 | heikkit > | btw, if anyone has a Dell Latitude D820, be careful if you have installed ubuntu 8.04 on it - I think 8.04 caused a heat death for my machine by waking up from suspend on its own with lid closed |
| 11:36 | gbaillie > | eek |
| 11:37 | heikkit > | gbaillie: I have just patched (if you google setuptools svn 1.5 the patch comes up on first page) |
| 11:38 | jaredrhine > | oh, my mac breakage continues. i reinstalled my network-dead mac. first install failed. second succeeded. no explanation. wired ethernet still broken, but wireless working again. i proceeded to install a half-gig or whatever of updates. wireless broke again. |
| 11:38 | jaredrhine > | most consistent explanation right now is that updates broke my networking. |
| 11:39 | jaredrhine > | will require more testing, of course, and more data will shift my theory again. |
| 11:40 | heikkit > | btw, anyone know if there were some adapters for a laptop hd so that I could read the contents on another machine? |
| 11:40 | jaredrhine > | gbaillie: when i load CP's "index.html" into emacs, it says it's in "mac" mode. not sure what encoding that is. loading into hexl (emacs hex editor), i see the end-of-line is a single 0x0d (CR). |
| 11:40 | jaredrhine > | do you know if this is the mac solution to the "CR"/"CR/NL" debate? Pick solo "CR"s? |
| 11:41 | jaredrhine > | heikkit: usb should work. |
| 11:41 | jaredrhine > | many 2.5" drives have a "mini-IDE" port. |
| 11:42 | jaredrhine > | You can get a "mini-IDE" (not sure if that's the name) to full IDE, and then stick in a $20 external IDE->USB case. |
| 11:42 | heikkit > | cool - do you know if they are picky about voltage and stuff? |
| 11:43 | heikkit > | I compared the hd specs to the hd in a D830 and they are different voltage |
| 11:43 | jaredrhine > | uh, that doesn't ring a bell, but sounds like a big warning sign to pay attention to. |
| 11:44 | jaredrhine > | i've never considered the different voltages on drives; thought they were way standardized with the plugs. |
| 11:44 | jaredrhine > | figured they took both a +12V and +5V rail. |
| 11:45 | heikkit > | hmm, maybe I mixed the amps and volts, but I think it was: d820 5V 1.1A, d830 5V 0.65A |
| 11:45 | jaredrhine > | is it EIDE or SATA? Haven't seen a laptop-sized sata but they probably exist. |
| 11:45 | jaredrhine > | that doesn't sound like a problem, really. |
| 11:46 | jaredrhine > | it's only 2.5watt difference and any power supply even a laptop can handle that. |
| 11:46 | heikkit > | (I don't remember if it was EIDE or SATA) |
| 11:46 | JeffreyH > | (n=JeffreyH@h-67-103-33-123.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net) joined #chandler. |
| 11:46 | jaredrhine > | (no warranty expressed or implied) |
| 11:47 | heikkit > | heh, yeah, I think I'll pass that experiment if I can't find an adapter that expressly covers this |
| 11:47 | heikkit > | my backups are only 5 days old, and my code is in svn, emails on the servers, so I won't lose much in any case |
| 11:48 | heikkit > | s/expressly/explicitly/ |
| 11:48 | jaredrhine > | yeah, i've used something that looks just like this: http://www.b2cshop24.com/en/hard-drive-ide-25-to-35-adapter-converter-for-laptop.html |
| 11:48 | jaredrhine > | i've got one in the house, but for under a buck (for this one at least), you can track down your own :) |
| 11:49 | heikkit > | heh |
| 11:49 | heikkit > | thanks for the pointers |
| 11:49 | jaredrhine > | see how it's got the drive-power port on-board to supply to the power-socket-less laptop drives. |
| 11:49 | jaredrhine > | $5.50 from newegg. my google was "laptop ide converter" |
| 11:50 | gbaillie > | sorry jaredrhine, was away. the mac "CR" thing dates back to ancient ancient Mac OS. |
| 11:50 | gbaillie > | some Carbon apps, especially, couldn't get away from CR |
| 11:51 | jaredrhine > | i'm inclined to fix this index.html file (figuring out how), remove the svn property, check it in, possibly forcing a merge for people with the current working copy, and clicking through some golive options if it happens again. |
| 11:52 | gbaillie > | fix by converting line endings? |
| 11:52 | jaredrhine > | i've a hard time believing that golive would force mac-only encoding on everything it touches, though i can believe it does by default. |
| 11:52 | jaredrhine > | yeah, line endings. |
| 11:52 | gbaillie > | you'd think that in this day and age, wouldn't you |
| 11:52 | heikkit > | btw, last week I run into an issue where I had python code creating a file, chmod 0644, then copy the file preserving permissions, yet I run into a case (buildbot running the unit test) where the permissions on the copy were 0600 |
| 11:52 | heikkit > | I used slightly modified code from here: http://svn.osafoundation.org/chandler/trunk/chandler/util/file.py |
| 11:53 | jaredrhine > | umask, sounds like... |
| 11:53 | heikkit > | I was unable to reproduce manually, even by changing umask |
| 11:53 | jaredrhine > | huh |
| 11:53 | gbaillie > | maybe filesystem specific? |
| 11:53 | heikkit > | and that code explicitly tried to set the permissions the same as the original file, so umask should not matter, right? |
| 11:54 | heikkit > | I haven't checked what the file system is yet |
| 11:54 | jaredrhine > | i suppose, assuming umask applies only to original file creation. |
| 11:54 | moodboom > | (n=moodboom@cpe-075-177-134-090.nc.res.rr.com) joined #chandler. |
| 11:54 | heikkit > | another suggestion I heard was to check if selinux is configured |
| 11:55 | jaredrhine > | i can picture an os being configured (se linux?) to refuse to create group/world readable files under any circumstances. |
| 11:55 | jaredrhine > | yeah, se linux jinx. |
| 11:56 | heikkit > | the problem is, it reproduced twoice under buildbot, but has been working since then, and I haven't changed the system |
| 11:56 | heikkit > | twice |
| 11:57 | gbaillie > | btw, jaredrhine, you haven't installed parallels at any point since rebuilding your mac, have you? |
| 11:57 | jaredrhine > | nope. |
| 11:58 | jaredrhine > | i hadn't done anything except go to "software updates". |
| 11:58 | gbaillie > | ok, just dbl-checking. they install some fishy network interfaces |
| 11:58 | jaredrhine > | yeah, i hoped to blame them as well. tried futzing with those interfaces (disabling, etc) when trying to get wired ethernet to work. |
| 11:59 | gbaillie > | it's pretty weird for wired to go down |
| 11:59 | jaredrhine > | yeah. it does happen. |
| 11:59 | jaredrhine > | this one is weird, though, in that link is established (both switch and the mac control panel see it), but no traffic ever goes it. |
| 12:00 | jaredrhine > | it looks like it is trying dhcp, but a snoop from another machine never shows any traffic, and the mac sets itself to a "self assigned" ip (169.254.X) |
| 12:00 | gbaillie > | i wonder if you could hard-code the address or something |
| 12:00 | gbaillie > | but you should see a packet go out for dhcp, yes |
| 12:00 | jaredrhine > | tried that. |
| 12:01 | jaredrhine > | but no packets go out then either. |
| 12:01 | jaredrhine > | i guess i'll reinstall again. |
| 12:02 | jaredrhine > | couldn't hurt, at this point. |
| 12:02 | jaredrhine > | i did do a "safe my previous account but don't import it"; this time i'll be more hulk smash. |
| 12:02 | jaredrhine > | throw in some more pmu/pram resets too |
| 12:04 | jaredrhine > | vaguely awkward for osaf logistics. i would have bought this machine in a couple months if it had stayed working. gotta decide if repair is worth it. maybe i'll take it for free if the repair price is low enough. |
| 12:14 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) |
| 12:26 | heikkit > | (n=chatzill@12.130.157.75) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) |
| 12:29 | palindrome > | (i=ce53ca23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8707a98e855acf63) joined #chandler. |
| 12:31 | palindrome > | (i=ce53ca23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8707a98e855acf63) left irc: Client Quit |
| 12:50 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 12:58 | heikkit > | (n=chatzill@12.130.157.75) joined #chandler. |
| 13:01 | Evdawg > | (n=evan@bas2-toronto47-1242436511.dsl.bell.ca) joined #chandler. |
| 13:01 | Evdawg > | hi |
| 13:02 | Evdawg > | I was wondering if it was possible to have sub-categories? |
| 13:02 | Evdawg > | For example beneath my school collection, I want Lectures and Tutorials |
| 13:04 | jaredrhine > | Evdawg: no, sorry, no sub-categories. almost everyone wants that feature, so you're in good company. |
| 13:05 | Evdawg > | cool, what's the ETA on that? is chandler still being actively developed past 1.0? |
| 13:07 | jaredrhine > | no eta. still being developed, but that ones a huge change. dev team is consciously switching to "refactor framework" phase for a number of months. |
| 13:07 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: |
| 13:08 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 13:08 | jaredrhine > | heh, gbaillie? |
| 13:09 | jaredrhine > | can you look at paniolo:/home/dave/msvs_* ? are those the visual studio media we were looking for? |
| 13:13 | Evdawg > | thx jared |
| 13:13 | Evdawg > | (n=evan@bas2-toronto47-1242436511.dsl.bell.ca) left irc: "Leaving" |
| 13:16 | gbaillie goes to look @ paniolo |
| 13:18 | gbaillie > | could well be, jaredrhine |
| 13:21 | gbaillie > | (n=grant@adsl-71-146-68-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left #chandler. |
| 13:21 | gbaillie > | (n=gbaillie@adsl-71-146-68-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 13:22 | moodboom > | (n=moodboom@cpe-075-177-134-090.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit |
| 13:25 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: |
| 13:42 | sikilpaak > | (n=cduarte@189.148.133.4) joined #chandler. |
| 13:49 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 13:49 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection |
| 13:50 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 14:04 | hamstar > | (n=hamstar@c-67-188-238-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #chandler. |
| 14:07 | hamstar > | ~mark 11:11 |
| 14:07 | soup > | http://chandlerproject.org/script/getIrcTranscript.cgi?channel=chandler&date=20080910&startTime=1111 |
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| 17:22 | ckdake > | (n=ckdake@gallery/ckdake) joined #chandler. |
| 17:24 | ckdake > | hi- im trying to migrate things over from Google Calendar including several ICS subscriptions into Chandler, but I'm having some trouble with timezones. Is there any hidden configuration for the timezone of an imported collection? |
| 17:25 | gbaillie > | ckdake, not that i know of. |
| 17:26 | gbaillie > | what kind of timezone trouble are you seeing? |
| 17:27 | ckdake > | working out the details of what is going on, but the items show up in Chandler with a different time than it should be |
| 17:27 | ckdake > | http://fastermustache.org/event -> fastermustache.org/fm.ics |
| 17:28 | ckdake > | ex: http://fastermustache.org/node/5695 is from 7:30am to 4pm GMT-4, but shows up in chandler as 11:30am |
| 17:28 | ckdake > | my system timezone is GMT-4 |
| 17:28 | ckdake > | i'm the admin for fastermustache if it's something wrong there, but it plays nice in mozilla calendar, ical, and google calendar |
| 17:29 | ovaltofu > | pje ? |
| 17:29 | pje > | yes? |
| 17:30 | ovaltofu > | I sent you mail a while back about some hack I had to do with setuptools on linux to get it to build a regular shared library. |
| 17:30 | ovaltofu > | my message was somewhat confused (with excitement) but you never responded :) |
| 17:30 | ovaltofu > | who should I send this to ? discuss with ? |
| 17:30 | ovaltofu > | (the hack: pretend to be on darwin when importing a specific module) |
| 17:30 | gbaillie > | distutils-sig? |
| 17:31 | ovaltofu > | so setuptools is being discussed on a distutils list ? |
| 17:31 | gbaillie > | yeah ... linked from the setuptools page |
| 17:32 | gbaillie > | there's also a bug tracker |
| 17:32 | pje > | Actually, I've applied the patch in the trunk, IIRC |
| 17:32 | ovaltofu > | oh |
| 17:32 | ovaltofu > | I don't remember sending one |
| 17:32 | gbaillie > | ckdake: the links you posted are just regular html pages? |
| 17:32 | ovaltofu > | but I'll check |
| 17:33 | pje > | See http://svn.python.org/view?rev=65962&view=rev |
| 17:33 | ckdake > | gbaillie: http://fastermustache.org/fm.ics is the ics file im trying to subscribe to |
| 17:33 | pje > | Oh, wait, that's a different one. |
| 17:33 | ovaltofu > | cool, but I'm talking about a different problem |
| 17:33 | pje > | I don't recall the other thing. |
| 17:34 | ovaltofu > | sys.platform = 'darwin' |
| 17:34 | ovaltofu > | from setuptools.command import build_ext |
| 17:34 | ovaltofu > | is the hack |
| 17:34 | ovaltofu > | that way, the code that is run at import time is correct for making .so on Linux |
| 17:34 | gbaillie > | ah, sorry, i was confused, ckdake ... looking |
| 17:34 | ckdake > | gbaillie: no prob. thanks for taking a look |
| 17:34 | ovaltofu looks for the mail |
| 17:36 | ovaltofu > | pje, I just remailed you my message (2) from July 3rd |
| 17:37 | ovaltofu > | the stubs stuff is in the way |
| 17:37 | ovaltofu > | it's turned off by pretending to be on darwin which causes use_stubs=False |
| 17:37 | ovaltofu > | and all is then good |
| 17:40 | ovaltofu > | pje, why all this ? well, JCC now makes eggs that can be run from Java Tomcat |
| 17:41 | pje > | Something's not right there ovaltofu; darwin sets use_stubs = True |
| 17:41 | ovaltofu checks |
| 17:41 | ovaltofu > | right, True |
| 17:41 | ovaltofu > | my bad |
| 17:41 | gbaillie > | ckdake: you have timezones enabled (under the File menu), right? |
| 17:42 | pje > | And it sets it that way also for non-Windows platforms as long as there's a dl.RTLD_NOW |
| 17:42 | pje > | So is linux missing dl.RTLD_NOW? |
| 17:42 | ovaltofu > | yes, well, there isn't by default and that was the problem |
| 17:42 | ovaltofu > | not on the linux I was running this on |
| 17:42 | ovaltofu > | gentoo 64-bit python 2.4 |
| 17:43 | ckdake > | gbaillie: yes i do |
| 17:43 | ovaltofu > | note, that to then get the lib to really work, I have to do this from C++ later: |
| 17:43 | ovaltofu > | sprintf(buf, "libpython%d.%d.so", PY_MAJOR_VERSION, PY_MINOR_VERSION); |
| 17:43 | ovaltofu > | dlopen(buf, RTLD_NOW | RTLD_GLOBAL); |
| 17:43 | ovaltofu > | otherwise, the time extension won't link |
| 17:43 | ovaltofu > | at startup time |
| 17:43 | philippeB > | (n=pbossut@adsl-71-141-0-189.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) joined #chandler. |
| 17:43 | pje > | Hm. IIRC, the reason I did that is because if you don't eagerly load the shared library, it might not be loaded later. |
| 17:43 | gbaillie > | ok, just double-checking. |
| 17:44 | rae > | (n=rae@76-10-128-217.dsl.teksavvy.com) joined #chandler. |
| 17:44 | ovaltofu > | yeah, and I had to work that around elsewhere |
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| 17:44 | gbaillie > | i seem to remember we do something odd with UTC datetimes ... let me look ... |
| 17:44 | pje > | i.e., say that foo_module.so is linking to bar.so |
| 17:44 | ovaltofu > | in C++, calling this myself |
| 17:44 | pje > | Hrm. |
| 17:45 | ovaltofu > | yeah, but there is no dl module on the python install I'm on (system gentoo) |
| 17:45 | pje > | Ok, doesn't really sound like a fix to me, just a hack that happens to work for your very specific circumstances. |
| 17:46 | ovaltofu > | clearly |
| 17:46 | ovaltofu > | which is why I called it a heinous hack |
| 17:46 | ovaltofu > | the bug seems to be with the expectation of a dl module to be there |
| 17:46 | ovaltofu > | when there is none |
| 17:47 | pje > | Eh? The dl usage is only included if there is a dl.RTLD_NOW |
| 17:47 | pje > | see the 'if_dl()' function |
| 17:47 | rae > | (n=rae@76-10-128-217.dsl.teksavvy.com) left #chandler. |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu > | well, I can try it again without my hack give you more details on the actual error if that helps |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu goes and tries this |
| 17:48 | pje > | I assume the error would be that it builds a static lib instead of a shared one; that's how the code is written, anyway. |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu > | yes |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu > | that's the problem |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu > | (it's been over two months) |
| 17:48 | pje > | i.e., it doesn't support building shared libs except on darwin and platforms with dl.RTLD_NOW |
| 17:48 | ovaltofu > | (so I don't recall) |
| 17:49 | pje > | and in fact it technically doesn't support building shared libs at all; it's not a documented or even finished feature. |
| 17:49 | ovaltofu > | yes, and it could just do it without the RTLD_NOW |
| 17:49 | ovaltofu > | that much I know |
| 17:49 | pje > | which would then break -- at least on the Linux I used for testing. |
| 17:49 | ovaltofu > | with use_stubs=True + the later dlopen call, it works reliably |
| 17:49 | gbaillie > | JeffreyH: what's the story with UTC events? Did we have some problem where we convert them to local timezone? |
| 17:49 | pje > | If you didn't link the symbols while the current directory contained the target library, it would fail when it tried later |
| 17:50 | gbaillie > | (I'm re-reading Bug 5653 and confusing myself) |
| 17:50 | soup > | Chandler bug #5653: UTC is not being displayed correctly Product: Chandler, Component: Calendar Service, Severity: normal, Assigned to: grant@osafoundation.org, Status: ASSIGNED, Url: http://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5653 |
| 17:50 | pje > | the reason for using RTLD_NOW is to force it to find the target library while it's findable via a relative path |
| 17:50 | ovaltofu > | well, I guess it should use RTLD_NOW if it can |
| 17:50 | ovaltofu > | and still do a shared lib, if it can't |
| 17:51 | pje > | yep. and if somebody wants to put together a way to do it with optional use of ctypes, I'll review the patch. :) |
| 17:51 | ckdake > | gbaillie: that looks like it |
| 17:51 | ovaltofu > | with the caveat that then a later call (at runtime) to dlopen is going to be necessary to load all the symobls |
| 17:51 | ovaltofu > | not sure I follow, pje (ctypes) ? |
| 17:51 | pje > | using ctypes in place of the dl module. |
| 17:52 | JeffreyH > | gbaillie: since various systems export to UTC, hamstar asked (years ago) that we treat UTC special and in the calendar display the timezone for UTC events as the default timezone, so 12AM UTC would show up as 5PM. We display the event at the right time, but the UTC is kind of spurious from the user's perspective |
| 17:52 | pje > | to perform any needed dlopens from the stub loader |
| 17:52 | ovaltofu > | ah I see |
| 17:52 | ovaltofu > | you're talking at lib build time, right ? |
| 17:53 | pje > | yes, although I suppose it could also be done dynamically in the stub. |
| 17:53 | gbaillie > | ah, ok, that sounds reasonable ... let me look again @ ckdake's calendar |
| 17:53 | ovaltofu > | that's the part I don't understand |
| 17:53 | JeffreyH > | sounds like ckdake is experiencing exactly this... |
| 17:53 | ovaltofu > | the shared lib in question here is loaded without python or setuptools at all but by the JVM |
| 17:54 | ovaltofu > | so it must contain the code to do this |
| 17:54 | JeffreyH > | gbaillie: I wrote a vobject utility script that will convert UTC events to a particular timezone on import from a file |
| 17:54 | ovaltofu > | the dlopen call |
| 17:54 | ovaltofu > | and that can be done in C/C++ by adding a small C file that just calls dlopen |
| 17:54 | JeffreyH > | so if ckdake wants to do a one time import, we can use that to translate things |
| 17:54 | pje > | I'm talking about something else - I assumed we were talking about building a C extension with shared libraries also built by build_ext |
| 17:54 | ovaltofu > | yes, that's right |
| 17:55 | pje > | That's the scenario where RTLD_NOW is needed for the Python load - when the C module is imported, it needs to bind with any shared libraries there. |
| 17:55 | ovaltofu > | but the the shared lib is the one being loaded first |
| 17:55 | pje > | But it doesn't have a stub. |
| 17:55 | pje > | Only modules have stubs |
| 17:55 | ckdake > | JeffreyH: this thing is a community calendar that gets updated several times a day, so it is something i need to subscribe to. i am the admin for it so I can probably redo the way it's publishing if that helps in some way |
| 17:55 | ovaltofu > | ok, what's a stub ? |
| 17:55 | pje > | A .py file used to bootstrap the module load process. |
| 17:55 | ovaltofu > | ah yes no stub then |
| 17:56 | ovaltofu > | since the JVM knows nothing about that |
| 17:56 | JeffreyH > | ckdake: Ah. In that case, you basically want us to fix bug 5653, then. |
| 17:56 | soup > | Chandler bug #5653: UTC is not being displayed correctly Product: Chandler, Component: Calendar Service, Severity: normal, Assigned to: grant@osafoundation.org, Status: ASSIGNED, Url: http://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5653 |
| 17:56 | ckdake > | JeffreyH: sounds like it :) |
| 17:56 | pje > | So are you building extensions or just a shared lib? What is this workaround *for*? |
| 17:57 | gbaillie > | JeffreyH, I don't think what you described is what I'm seeing. |
| 17:57 | ovaltofu > | I'm building a python extension, JCC, that also includes a shared lib |
| 17:57 | gbaillie > | i.e. the VEVENT has DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20080928T113000Z |
| 17:57 | ovaltofu > | I'm using the convenience of setuptools to build the shared lib |
| 17:57 | pje > | ok. so when the extension is loaded, it needs to force the shared lib to load |
| 17:57 | ovaltofu > | that shared lib is loaded either by the extensions JCC builds or by other things embedding python, such as a JVM |
| 17:57 | gbaillie > | oh, no, it's correct on the calendar |
| 17:57 | gbaillie > | nm |
| 17:58 | JeffreyH > | it shows up at the right time, but displays 11:30 instead of 4:30AM, right? |
| 17:58 | JeffreyH > | (or whatever, depending on where you've set your tz to) |
| 17:58 | gbaillie > | yeah, that's right, JeffreyH |
| 17:58 | ovaltofu > | no extension is loaded |
| 17:58 | ovaltofu > | the shared lib loads python and initializes it |
| 17:58 | ovaltofu > | that's when it breaks, without the dlopen call |
| 17:59 | pje > | Which is why it's not supported. |
| 17:59 | ovaltofu > | but it could be |
| 17:59 | pje > | We seem to be going in circles. |
| 17:59 | ovaltofu > | now I understand what you mean |
| 17:59 | ovaltofu > | it could be with use_stubs=True |
| 18:00 | ovaltofu > | in other words, it'd be nice to support this |
| 18:00 | ovaltofu > | it involves no new code |
| 18:00 | pje > | only if there were some way to say, "I'm going to take care of the dlopen for you" |
| 18:00 | pje > | otherwise, people will build extensions that then crash when used without dl.RTLD_NOW. |
| 18:00 | ovaltofu > | the build can SAY it |
| 18:01 | ovaltofu > | maybe with a flag that goes around this ? |
| 18:01 | ovaltofu > | force-use-stubs |
| 18:01 | ovaltofu > | or, if possible, add a piece of code to the produced lib that does the dlopen at load time, a C stub for the shared lib |
| 18:02 | pje > | Well, I'd rather use something like force-shared, since that's what's really wanted here. the stub itself isn't helping if there's no dl. |
| 18:02 | ovaltofu > | fine |
| 18:02 | ovaltofu > | force-shared |
| 18:02 | ovaltofu > | which implies manual dlopen'ing elsewhere |
| 18:03 | pje > | Please remember, though, that the entire process in the first place is unfinished, undocumented and experimental. |
| 18:03 | ovaltofu > | yeah, I'm aware of that |
| 18:03 | ovaltofu > | but I depend on it and I'm willing to live with kludges until it is finished and provide feedback or patches |
| 18:03 | ovaltofu > | would you like me to write a force-shared patch ? |
| 18:04 | pje > | if you like. I'd prefer it be implemented by options on Library, since Library is the undocumented/unfinished bit |
| 18:04 | ovaltofu > | that'd be good |
| 18:04 | pje > | don't want it showing in the command line, and in any case it's a statement about the library, not the specific build. |
| 18:04 | ovaltofu > | right |
| 18:05 | ovaltofu > | it'd be used in JCC's setup.py where I instantiate a Library |
| 18:05 | ovaltofu > | no need for a command line thing at all |
| 18:05 | pje > | anyway, bugs.python.org/setuptools |
| 18:05 | ovaltofu > | the address to submit the patch and bug ? |
| 18:06 | pje > | yes |
| 18:06 | ovaltofu > | cool, I should have something shortly (days) |
| 18:06 | pje is late leaving; TTYL |
| 18:06 | ovaltofu > | thanks for your help |
| 18:06 | ovaltofu > | cia |
| 18:06 | ovaltofu > | ciao |
| 18:06 | pje > | (n=pje@adsl-9-215-89.mia.bellsouth.net) left irc: "Client exiting" |
| 18:06 | ovaltofu > | ~mark |
| 18:06 | soup > | http://chandlerproject.org/script/getIrcTranscript.cgi?channel=chandler&date=20080910&startTime=1806 |
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| 23:50 | gambler > | (n=gambler@124-171-206-67.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #chandler. |
| 23:50 | gambler > | hi where can I find out more information about the chandler object database for storing messages? |
| 00:00 | --- > | Thu Sep 11 2008 |
){kind=link}