John and I met with Robert Ginda on the afternoon of 26 September 2003. Robert gave us permission to post the minutes:

Robert said a number of very encouraging things.

• Don't use Java. DHTML and Javascript are the way to go. Java is too heavyweight. You can do very powerful things (like outline widgets) with Javascript and DHTML.
• If you use HTML's in-flow positioning, you CAN NOT get pixel-perfect accross browsers. However, you can do absolute positioning by using DIVs with height and widths and padding. (He has some code that he might be able to get open-sourced.) He finds it very refreshing to use absolute positioning...
• There exist some cross-browser Javascript widgets that we can use that are pretty powerful. See http://devedge.netscape.com/toolbox/examples/2002/xb/
• Robert did a bunch of event and menu-managing code in Venkman. Robert's code would need (mild) changes to make it work with IE. He recommends adding types to parameter lists. Recommendation: consider using XB as a guideline, but don't feel compelled to stick to it -- he's unsure who (if anybody) is maintaining it.
  • http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/venkman/resources/content/command-manager.js
  • http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/venkman/resources/content/venkman-commands.js
  • http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/venkman/resources/locale/en-US/venkman.properties
  • http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/venkman/techtalk/commands.html
  • http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/venkman/resources/content/venkman-menus.js
• Robert really likes SquirrelMail as a Web mailer. Note that SquirrelMail even does spellchecking!
• Robert said XML HTTP requests allow you to send data to the server synch or asynch (DO NOT USE synchronous method) without a page turn.
• Sorting is always a problem on the client.
• Safari doesn't run Javascript really well, but the Safari team does want to fix it.
• There is lots and lots of really bad Javascript code out there.
• Advice: be REALLY strict about browser versions; while in development, pick one version of each of the major browsers and stick with that. Make it work across versions later.
• Advice: It's a good idea to make test suits for all your widgets. You can then tell people, "if your browser runs this test suite, you can probably run Chandler on your browser".
• Q: Should we try to make one Document or make different Documents for different realizations? A: Your browser will always limit you. For example, you can't have context windows that extend beyond the window size.

-- DuckySherwood - 30 Sep 2003