[16:30] mitch_car (~chatzill@63.90.156.153) joined #chandler.
[16:30] Nick change: mitch_car -> mitch
[16:30] jonathanOSAF (~jprusky@12-236-204-253.client.attbi.com) joined #chandler.
[16:31] <jonathanOSAF> hi folks
[16:31] <mitchell> hi Jonathan
[16:31] morgen (~morgen@63.90.156.153) joined #chandler.
[16:31] <mitchell> we'll get started in a minute
[16:31] <mitchell> Well, it's about 4:30
[16:32] <mitchell> so let's get started
[16:33] <mitchell> I posted an update earlier today
[16:33] <mitchell> hopefully people had a chance to read it
[16:34] <mitchell> We've spend a good chunk of time this week working on the issue summaries I described
[16:34] <mitchell> so you may have noticed that the channel has been very quite
[16:34] <mitchell> our next job is to try to write down and capture the results of these discussion
[16:34] <mitchell> but that may take a bit
[16:35] <mitchell> The good news from all these meetings is that we hope to have a much more efficient process
[16:35] <mitchell> for making decisions, communicating them and implementing them
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[16:36] <mitchell> And since Andi has joined us with a focus on the repository/database issues
[16:36] <mitchell> we should see some progress here as well
[16:37] <mdubinko> It's less quiet here when Ducky is around ;-)
[16:38] <mitchell> yes, that is true
[16:38] <mitchell> but even Ducky would have been at these meetings this week, and quieter than usual
[16:38] <mitchell> or so i think
[16:38] <mdubinko> she does a great job on IRC
[16:39] <mitchell> good, I'm glad to hear it.  She's deeper into the product than I am
[16:39] <mitchell> as well as being focused on communicaiton
[16:39] <jonathanOSAF> is there IRC chat going on beyond the scheduled sessions?
[16:40] <jurgen> sure, IRC is up 24 hours....
[16:40] <mitchell> yes, most days.  As I said, not much this week because of the intense meeting schedule
[16:40] <jurgen> we aren't, though... we sleep now and then...
[16:40] <mitchell> many of us are here on the channel most of the work day, though not this week
[16:43] <mitchell> mdubinko:  there is a kid's movie called the Land Before Time
[16:43] <mitchell> it is a story of dinasours.  One of the main characters is a dino named "Ducky"
[16:43] <mitchell> the dinos describe themselves as "long-necks" "sharp-tooth" "spike-tail" etc.
[16:43] af (~andrewfr@216.13.46.139) joined #chandler.
[16:44] <mitchell> ducky describes her kind of dino as a "bigmouth"
[16:44] <mitchell> I told this to our ducky and she had a great laugh about it, though *her* mother might agree
[16:44] <mitchell> Anyway, for those not in the OSAF building, is there anything on your mind I can address?
[16:45] <af> yes, what will be the focus of the next release?
[16:45] <jonathanOSAF> what is the status of the design of the outline view with multiple data types?
[16:45] <mitchell> the focus will be getting some of the key infrastructure in place
[16:45] <mitchell> in particular, how data is handled
[16:45] <mitchell> Andi has joined us to work on implementation
[16:46] <mitchell> I didn't attend the database meeting, but I understand that some clarity is emerging on direction
[16:47] <mitchell> I'm waiting to see the writeup that comes of this
[16:47] <mitchell> jonathan:  do you mean the "super-widget?"  
[16:48] <mitchell> If so,  John and Mitch have been spending a chunk of time on this
[16:48] <af> I have looked at the Data Model schema. I find it strange that you have a schema yet many of the topics that the schema addresses have not be designed yet.
[16:48] <jonathanOSAF> yes
[16:48] <mdubinko> (jonathanOSAF is John Anderson, right?)
[16:48] <jonathanOSAF> no
[16:48] <jonathanOSAF> Jonathan Prusky
[16:48] <mdubinko> more similar names
[16:48] <mdubinko> :-)
[16:48] <mitchell> mdubinko:  No, it's confusiong.  None of the OSAF folks are using an "OSAF" suffix here in IRC.
[16:49] <mitchell> JonathanOSAF:  maybe it would be less confusing if you didn't use OSAF in your name either.
[16:49] <jonathanOSAF> ok
[16:49] <mitchell> maybe others are similarly confused that you are john anderson
[16:50] <mitchell> So Mitch is filled with ideas about the superwidget
[16:50] Nick change: jonathanOSAF -> jonathan
[16:50] <mitchell> John is trying to get a good enough handle on these to write them down and then start to implement
[16:50] <mitchell> for more detail you can ask him on tuesday at 1pm 
[16:50] <luther> mitchell: Your status report mentions addressing consistency between parcels. I know all this is still in constant flux, but are we going to be seeing some rough parcel guidelines? Both gui and otherwise? 
[16:51] <mitchell> af:  we're just coming out of the stage where everything is in pieces on the floor.  
[16:52] <af> I understand the schema is a strawman. However wouldn't it help if its focus was narrowed?
[16:52] <mitchell> brian, are you around to comment?
[16:53] <mitchell> luther:  I would be surprised to see much in the way of gui guidelines in 0.2.  
[16:53] <Brian> yup, i'm here
[16:53] <mitchell> for one thing, the focus is on the infrastructure
[16:53] <Brian> the schema is very much a strawman
[16:53] <mitchell> luther:  and we don't have a graphics designer right now
[16:54] <mitchell> so the combination suggests that gui guidelines will wait
[16:54] <mdubinko> I too was wondering too about the "super-widget" -- some kind of uber table view, right?
[16:54] <mdubinko> too many toos :-)
[16:55] <mitchell> brian:  af had noted he found it strange that we "have a schema yet many of the topics that the schema addresses have not be designed yet.
[16:55] <mitchell> mdubinko:  not just a uber "table" widget.  More like an uber outline widget
[16:55] <mdubinko> is it availble in CVS yet? Or maybe design docs?
[16:55] <mitchell> the idea is that a piece of data can be part of many different views, in different outlines and hierarchies
[16:56] <mitchell> ah, certainly not in CVS.  
[16:57] <mdubinko> I'm working on a Notepad/Outliner ("Noteliner") parcel, and I'd be interested in contributing what I can at an early stage
[16:57] <luther> More than just the visual aspects, I'm interested in the recommended kinds of interactions. E.g., "confine menu items to your parcel's one menu". Or Preferences should be set here.
[16:57] <af> out of curiousity, is the agent framework considered infrastructure - I can't see it working without an event model which is a fairly high level architectural issue.
[16:58] <Brian> af: right, it's too early to develop a final schema for the PIM parcels (calendar, e-mail, etc.)..
[16:58] <Brian> af: But it's important to start thinking about what the schema will look like for those parcels, so that we can get a feel for the requirements of our underlying data model -- how we represent thigns like items, collections, attribute values, default values, derived values, kinds of items, etc.
[16:58] <mitchell> as to design docs for the super-widget, all we have right now is a page Ducky threw together during our last chat 
[16:58] <mitchell> we fail here
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[16:59] <mitchell> mdubinko:  we're certianly interested in contributions :-)
[16:59] <mitchell> mdubinko:  will you be able to join us next tuesday?
[16:59] <af> noted Brian. 
[17:00] <mitchell> the topic is architecture, but it would be a fine time to ask john about the superwidget
[17:00] <mdubinko> mitchell: I think so
[17:00] <mitchell> great; i dont' think anyone but john or mitch could say much about this
[17:00] <jonathan> mdubinko: is your parcel a way of taking notes with hierarchy?
[17:00] <jed> The first skeleton explaining what the Table Outline Widget (Super widget) hopes to be can be found at http://wiki.osafoundation.org/bin/view/Jungle/TableWidgetIssueSummary
[17:02] <luther> Is the Table Outline Widget going to be eventually used for the Repository View? I'm asking because the current repository view isn't really usable on OS X.
[17:03] <luther> I didn't even know what was visible in the repository view until Micah posted his article on the wiki today. :-)
[17:03] <mdubinko> jonathan: since I don't have something like an outline widget, I'm starting out with flat string notes, but I'd like to go there...
[17:03] <jed> The table outline widget will hopefully be used (at least in some way) by most any parcel displaying information stored in the repository
[17:04] <jed> The repository view is included in that
[17:04] <jed> However, I will have a fix for the repository on the Mac far before the Table Outline Widget is completed (hopefully in the next day or two)
[17:05] <luther> Great! Jed is on my Hero of the Week list. :-)
[17:05] <mdubinko> on Linux, the repository view is not really scrollable
[17:05] <mdubinko> and it very quickly fills the screen :-)
[17:05] <mdubinko> (i.e. creating a contact creates 57 root-level things)
[17:05] <jed> luther:  Let me actually get the patch in before you make any such claims :)
[17:06] <jed> The contact itself probably only has about a dozen attributes, but creating it causes many templates to be created which accounts for the 57 root-level things
[17:06] <mdubinko> yep
[17:07] <jed> It is a good way of keeping perspective of how quickly your repository can begin to bloat (something we have to be watchful of)
[17:08] <luther> BTW, I don't know if you folks are familiar with PLT Scheme but they have their own version of wxWindows that they forked many years ago. It is rock-solid and works on Win32, Mac, Linux, etc. There may be a code borrowing opportunity there. It was developed by huge sweatshops of grad students working at a university consortium.
[17:09] <mitchell> do you have a pointer?  
[17:09] <jed> I, personally, am not familiar.  Do you have any pointers for me to explore
[17:09] <luther> http://www.plt-scheme.org
[17:10] <jed> thnx
[17:10] <mitchell> John did the review of gui choices, including wxWindows before I joined, so I'll ask him about this
[17:11] <luther> DrScheme is the full IDE. MrEd is the graphics toolkit contained within DrScheme.
[17:14] <mitchell> luther:  have these folks made wxWindows look good on the mac?
[17:16] <luther> Very, very nice. I've used it for product development for several years under OS X. They've even done niceties like proper placement of the Preferences... menu item.
[17:16] <luther> They *don't* have alpha channel in their widgets, which would be nice.
[17:16] <mitchell> do you know why this is a fork?  did the two groups have trouble working together?
[17:18] <luther> I'm not sure. It just may be the PLT group had their own agenda. They are a driven folk. You'll be shocked at the number of tools, docs, and papers they've produced.
[17:20] <mitchell> chao's back, so now would be a good time to ask any questions about the 0.2 planning doc
[17:21] <af> I have one more question - I am curious about how volunterism works in the OSAF.
[17:22] <af> the number of volunteers does not seem to be growing all that quick.
[17:22] <mitchell> good question, where shall I start?
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[17:22] <mitchell> depends a bit on your expectations
[17:23] <mitchell> we're just now figuring out how the development process for the full time people works
[17:23] <mitchell> and starting to resolve some critical questions
[17:23] <mitchell> given this, the level of interest and contribution has been pretty good
[17:23] <jesse_132> as a want-to-be volunteer, I think it is too early for outsiders to do much :(
[17:23] <mitchell> we hope to develop a bit of a use/testing program for the 0.2 release
[17:23] <luther> af: Chandler's still a small snowball at the top of the hill. As it gets bigger, it'll pick up more snow, er participants.
[17:24] <mitchell> also, to see if there might be volunteers who could do critical things like
[17:24] <mitchell> outline the functions we think our parcel performs
[17:24] <jonathan> I could work on that
[17:24] <mitchell> For example, in 0.2 the calendar parcel will have some (small) set of features.  We should have a system for listing those features
[17:25] <mitchell> and a checklist so that people can note which features work, and what platforms have been tested
[17:25] <mitchell> Johathan:  this would be great.
[17:25] <af> Mitchell, it seems to me in order to get benefits from volunteers, you have to freeze and write up requirements and have a bit more architecture.
[17:26] <jonathan> should I just follow-up with Katie on that then?
[17:26] <mitchell> Jonathan:  As a starting point, one could look at the 0.1 release and list the features an end user could see
[17:26] <mitchell> af:  yes, there are some barriers to volunteers now
[17:26] <mitchell> More architecture and more direction as to where we are going
[17:26] <af> such as?
[17:26] <mitchell> Also more code to look at
[17:26] <mitchell> And a more active development cycle
[17:27] <mitchell> It's been pretty quiet on the development side here since the 0.1 release.
[17:27] <jesse_132> having 0.1.x releases when a known bug occurs (like the repository thing) would be nice :)
[17:27] <mitchell> We worked so hard on that and the university aspect that we didn't get 0.2 planned in any detail before 0.1 went out.
[17:27] <chao> we have snapshot releases
[17:28] <chao> These can be found at : http://downloads.osafoundation.org/chandler/snapshots/
[17:28] <chao> They contain snapshots of the latest code we have with bugfixes and patch contributions from the community
[17:29] <mitchell> well, morgan has  made a few.  But we need to figure out what to do with them.  For example, are "snapshot" releases for which we are seeking feedback?
[17:29] <af> changing the subject slightly, I looked at the Calendar parcel, it does seem to have functional interface: the calendar objects are exposed.
[17:29] <af> rather does not.
[17:29] <jesse_132> chao: but why not call one 0.1.1 so people download working stuff and don't have to grab something else
[17:29] <bear> drat - missed the meeting
[17:29] <mitchell> We don't know yet.  But Jonathan, I'm thinking that if some of the features suddently stop working in a snapshot, we ought to know that.
[17:29] Action: bear curses the need for some customers to require a "personal" visit
[17:30] Action: mitchell commiserates with bear
[17:30] Action: bear reads the scroll back
[17:31] <chao> jesse_132: you're right, we need to make how we organize our snapshots more understandable and referrable by everyone
[17:31] <jesse_132> :)
[17:32] <jonathan> I didn't realize the snapshots were there until just now
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[17:32] <jonathan> hi katie
[17:32] <luther> jonathan: They're kind of hard to find...
[17:32] <mitchell> jesse_132: as a would-be volunteer, are there particular things you would be interested in doing? 
[17:32] <katie> hello, I've been away, but I hear there was a question about the calendar...
[17:32] <af> yes.
[17:33] <mitchell> jonathan:  we havent' said much about the snapshots for the reason I  mentioned above:  we dont' even know if we want feedback on them ...
[17:33] <jesse_132> mitchell: that is a very interesting question... answer is yes, but not sure... 
[17:33] <jesse_132> is there a "wishlist" from the developers to the comunity
[17:33] <af> I have looking through the Chandler source code. The Contact and repository have an ADT interface, the calendar doesn't.
[17:34] <af> or I haven't found it.
[17:34] <chao> jesse_132, what do you mean by wishlist?
[17:34] <mitchell> not yet.  I'm thinking in very borad terms, like :  write code; do some testing;  write a parcel, write docs
[17:34] <jesse_132> things non-core people can work on ...  without reading TONS of documents
[17:35] <katie> af: I'm not sure I understand, are you asking if the calendar has a data model/schema?
[17:35] <katie> af: its very minimal at the moment (in the python code), just Event.py
[17:35] <mdubinko> suggestion: snapshots should be accompanied with a new Wiki entry for mini-release-notes as well as notification
[17:36] <mitchell> mdubinko:  this is our problem.  We haven't yet decided how much in the way of resources we will devote to snapshots.  And mini release notes requires resources.
[17:36] <katie> af: it will be more interesting in the next release, the schema is one of the priorities
[17:36] <mitchell> People laughed at me when I asked "do we care if the snapshots build and run?"  Of course we do
[17:36] <af> no, it seems to lack an interface, rather it seems that a client has to know about the individual classes that comprise the calendar.
[17:36] <mitchell> But my point was:  what else do we care about?  This has been noted as the need for "criteria" for a snapshot release
[17:37] <chao> well, maybe that's an answer to jess_132's question: we need people to help document and track the snapshot releases :)
[17:37] <mitchell> michael toy owns the job of making a proposal here, because michael is the most focused on balancing the competeing need for resources
[17:37] <jonathan> mitchell: I presume they build and run, otherwise why bother?
[17:37] <mdubinko> actually, each snapshot already has a kind of mini-release notes on the web page
[17:38] <mitchell> well, one could take a snapshot at a certain time.  doing anything more than this implies spending some resources.
[17:38] <mitchell> I agree there is no point in posting anything that doesn't run and build.
[17:39] <katie> af: the calendar is very minimal, essentially the interface consists of GetStartTime, etc.
[17:39] <jed> Currently, Morgen is just monitoring cvs.  When he sees a change in the non-Chandler code, he provides a snapshot
[17:39] <katie> af: but this is not different from the contacts
[17:39] <katie> af: perhaps I'm not understanding your point
[17:40] <jed> They are not meant as  milestone kind of thing, but more just a sanity check and a way for developers concentrating on Chandler specific code to have the most current build of the libraries
[17:40] <luther> You guys will eventually have a Tinderbox and nightly builds (not soon I know; many, many tests need to be written), so perhaps one day much of this will be moot. Correct?
[17:41] <jed> Hopefully very much so
[17:41] <mitchell> Jed: So do the snapshots pick up whatever changes in the Chandler code have been made up to that time?
[17:41] <af> I guess my point is that it would be difficult for a client,i.e another parcel to work with the calendar in its current state. 
[17:41] <katie> af: well, this is true :)
[17:42] <katie> af: do you mean the data model in particular, or the calendar parcel viewer classes?
[17:42] <af> I mean the model classes.
[17:42] <jed> The snapshots do pick up the current Chandler source code (or at least the end-user version does
[17:42] <mitchell> jesse_132:  by "non-core" do you mean non-code, or do you mean including code, but not code at the heart of the infrastructure
[17:42] <katie> af: well, for starters, there's not much there, so its not particularly useful
[17:43] <jed> It is just that their timing is marked by changes to non-Chandler libraries rather features/improvements that have been made to Chandler itself
[17:43] <mitchell> jed;  so snapshots pick up new Chandler code, but they are created using different criteria:  when a non-Chandler library changes?
[17:43] <katie> af: what kind of interface do you expect to see, that would make it useful?
[17:43] <mitchell> jed:  never mind, you just answered  me
[17:44] <af> stuff like addEvent(), removeEvent, hasFreeTime(some-time-range), i.e. In short the methods that I would a calendar to implement.
[17:44] <af> without me knowing about the calendar's internals.
[17:45] <jed> We definitely will need to visit the issue of snapshots vs interim releases.
[17:45] <af> in short, the Calendar's API.
[17:45] <jed> Currently, the snapshots are meant as a developer's tool rather than a "here is the state of the universe for end users"
[17:45] <katie> af: this is not so much a matter of needing to know the calendar's internals, it just doesn't have free-time as a supported property yet
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[17:46] <katie> af: but perhaps the crux of your point is that you want to see python methods for accessing the Event's attributes
[17:46] <katie> af: we're debating the right syntax for this
[17:46] <af> more than just an event, the calendar itself.
[17:46] <katie> af: yes, there will be a calendar object
[17:47] <mdubinko> something like hasFreeTime() would be a query across many Items
[17:47] <af> in general, I figure that an important first step in figuring out the APIs for the major parcels. Repository and Contact seems to have interfaces.
[17:47] <katie> af: although one could imagine that you think of a 'calendar' as all of the events that have the same value in their 'calendar' attribute
[17:48] <katie> af: repository is just a view on *all* of the data, calendar and contact included
[17:48] <katie> af: but you are correct that contact has a more developed schema checked in the python code
[17:50] <mitchell> we're just past 5:45, so I'll offer a last chance to anyone who has questions about the status update
[17:50] <af> Katie, I don't view a Calendar as the set of all events.
[17:50] <mitchell> if there are none, I'll declare the session over
[17:51] <mitchell> all are welcome to stay of course and continue discussion
[17:51] Action: bear resists the urge to raise his hand 
[17:51] <bear> :)
[17:51] <katie> af: one way of thinking about it is as a set of Items (events and other things) that have a particular attribute, essentially the result set of a particular query
[17:51] <mitchell> go ahead bear
[17:51] <katie> af: not as all things contained in a particular place
[17:52] Action: bear was kidding
[17:52] <bear> I'm still digesting the wiki and getting cvs to build on my debian box
[17:52] <mitchell> OK, then  I'll ask the last question:
[17:52] <katie> af: this idea is sort of central to Chandler, the idea of 'views of items' instead of 'folders containing items'
[17:53] <mitchell> If we created a place for people to put a brief bit of info about themselves, would anybody do so?
[17:53] <af> Katie, I believe we are talking about different things, I will write up my concerns and e-mail them to you. I am not use to using IRC.
[17:53] <katie> af: cool
[17:53] Action: bear is a private person and rarely gives out any info
[17:53] <mitchell> there are some folks at OSAF who are a bit disconcerted by the complete anonymity
[17:53] <af> goodbye.
[17:54] <Brian> af: could you cc: me on that mail too?
[17:54] Action: mitchell understands privacy completely
[17:54] <af> fine.
[17:54] af (~andrewfr@216.13.46.139) left irc: 
[17:54] <mdubinko> aren't the Wiki pages a good place to put any info you care to make public?
[17:54] <jonathan> mitchell: I think that is a good idea
[17:54] <bear> but I will put my knowledge area and how I think I can help as a volunteer
[17:54] <mdubinko> everybody has a WikiName :-)
[17:54] <bear> mdubinko: if I could have used bear as my wiki name I would have
[17:54] <krzysztofk> mitchell: yes
[17:55] <mitchell> yes, the wiki is a good place.  I think one can do this when one registers
[17:55] <mdubinko> I put a few paras on mine
[17:55] <mitchell> OK, so maybe the right thing to do is to suggest that those people who *want* to include a bit of info about themselves
[17:56] <mitchell> and then let us know what irc nick belongs with the wikiname
[17:56] <jonathan> mitchell: or maybe have a list which could be an index to wikinames where people have put their info
[17:56] <mitchell> bear:  you'd have to be bearBear or bearGrowls or somethign like that I think
[17:56] <bear> well, Main.CodeBear seem a bit much
[17:56] <mitchell> the index idea reminds me of something.  So, another question
[17:56] <bear> tho it is my domain name :)
[17:56] <mitchell> I've been thinking about making a space in bugzilla called "volunteers" or something like that
[17:57] Action: luther knows Bear is BillGates (his WikiName) spying on Chandler. ;-)
[17:57] <mitchell> people who wanted to could add themselves, list their expertise, what they would liek to do, etc
[17:57] <bear> drat - been found out!
[17:57] <mitchell> the info would be searchable, available to all, changable, findable
[17:57] <Brian> mitchell: a space in "bugzilla", or a space on the wiki?
[17:58] <mdubinko> I am not a bug! ;-)
[17:58] <mitchell> Brian:  my thought was bugzilla, because it is a database.  I would like to be able to do a wide range of queries.Jurgen thinks its
[17:58] <bear> I know the one thing that is holding me back from "volunteering" is a) not feeling good about my understanding currently and b) unsure if I will be trying to help with something that is already being handled
[17:58] <mitchell> oops.  Jurgen things it's bad to have people associated with "bugs" in any way
[17:58] <mitchell> But I think being able to manipulate the data is critical
[17:58] <luther> jurgen hasn't met some of the same people I have.
[17:59] <mdubinko> A collaborative Chandler repository would be the ideal solution :-)
[17:59] <mitchell> bear:  none of us is happy with our current understanding :-)
[17:59] <bear> ahh - then I don't feel bad :)
[17:59] <mitchell> yes, Chandler would solve many of our problems.
[17:59] <mitchell> but, clearly, I need to figure out ways of making it easier to volunteer
[17:59] <mitchell> if you've got ideas, let me know
[18:00] <mitchell> anyone beside luther have thoughts on the Bugzilla idea for volunteers?
[18:00] <mitchell> more precisely, anyone object to this idea?
[18:00] <luther> mitchell: Why do I suspect I'm going to be listed as a bug soon?
[18:00] <bear> I think a wiki volunteer task page that has links to areas that need tending would work
[18:01] <mitchell> luther:  personality :-)
[18:01] <bear> then each volunteer can make a comment or note as to what taks they are working on
[18:01] <bear> bugzilla works for me
[18:01] <mdubinko> how do Mozilla and similar projects handle volunteers?
[18:01] <mitchell> OK, bear votes for a wiki page.  I wonder how searchable it is?  it would be great to get up one day and say:
[18:01] <Brian> mitchell: I'd love to see some kind of informal database of volunteers, or just of people who are interested. That sounds like a great idea.
[18:02] <mitchell> "man, we desparately need help with X.  Let's go search for all the people who said they would help out with X"
[18:02] <bear> hmm, actually bugzilla does make sense
[18:02] <bear> you can list volunteer tasks as entries with code words
[18:02] <jonathan> I also would rather not be considered a "bug" ..
[18:02] <jonathan> but if that is the best tool..
[18:02] <mitchell> jonathan:  how about a "Requrest for Enhancement"?
[18:03] <luther> mitchell: I get ads in email every day offering that.
[18:03] <jonathan> I prefer to be an enhancement -- there are many ways I could help :-)
[18:03] <bear> either way works - I know in the projects I manage volunteers for *any* method of communcation is good
[18:03] <mitchell> bear:  yes, we could use bugzilla's "keywords" for things like QA, Docs, Mac OS X expertise, etc
[18:03] <mitchell> luther:  i guess we all do.  though I am getting fewer as the spam-filter is slowing being trained to recognize these
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[18:04] <luther> The keywords are a good idea. It'd be a good way to figure out what kind of capabilities we can bring to the table.
[18:04] <bear> yes - it would allow osaf people to query for volunteers 
[18:05] <mitchell> and it would allow non-OSAF people to look for volunteers with similar or complementary interests
[18:05] <luther> Conversely we can tell which OSAF folk we should align ourselves with.
[18:06] <mitchell> yes and yes
[18:08] <jonathan> thanks for moderating mitchell
[18:08] <jonathan> bye
[18:08] <mdubinko> thanks
[18:08] <mitchell> bye jonathan, and you're welcome
[18:08] <mitchell> thanks for being here
[18:08] Action: bear waves to jonathan
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[18:10] <mitchell> It's about time for me to sign off as well.  I'm not working tomorrow, so won't be online much until tuesday
[18:10] Action: bear waves to mitchell
[18:10] <mitchell> See you at 1pm for the architecture chat if you can join us
[18:11] <luther> mitchell: is osaf far from your mozilla office?
[18:11] <mitchell> luther:  I do most of my mozilla work from home; mozilla staff is pretty distributed
[18:12] <mitchell> and some from the OSAF offices. 
[18:12] <mitchell> OSAF supports some of my mozilla work, as part of its committment to open source applications in general
[18:13] <luther> That's good. I'm glad to know you're only burning the candle at both ends. Not both ends and in the middle as well. :-)
[18:13] <mitchell>  right, both ends is more than enought
[18:13] <mitchell> now I'm *really* going to go!
[18:13] Action: mitchell waves bye to all
[18:13] Action: bear turns off mitchell's monitor
[18:14] <luther> Bye and take care.
[18:14] <mitchell> bye
[18:14] <bear> later mitchell - enjoy your weekend
[18:14] <mitchell> here I go .o.o.o.o.o.o
[18:14] <mitchell> gone
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